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 Search Advanced searchhow to limit upload speed in qbittorrent  It assumes the connection is dedicated to running torrents -- that means horrible speed test results WHILE running torrents

Are the global and per torrent upload slot limits set such that each upload slot can upload at the effective minimum they need to function properly? (Each one needs roughly 1 full packet of about 1000-1400 bytes typically per second, so call that 1 KiB/sec per upload slot as an absolute minimum. If qBitTorrent is uploading as well, that may overload the connection even without hitting max download speed. brickfrog2 • 7 yr. 2. Most of the peers qBT "remembers" seeing before are gone or changed ips in as little as a couple hours. 0MiB/s to 1. To limit an application's download or upload speed, just check the appropriate box under DL Limit or UL Limit. 2. But an unlimited upload rate impacts on the download speed. Basically, how thinly you are spreading your upload speed around. Just click with a right mouse bottom on a torrent you want to limit, go to "torrent options". Search; function "limit upload speed" not working. Max download speed is usually much faster and not reached, so a max limit in qBitTorrent for download is normally not needed. FranciscoPombal added the Feature request label on Feb 18, 2020. Well, apparently when I increase my upload speed limit my download speed also increases. Disable the µTP rate limit and set a Global Upload Rate Limit of 1000 KiB/s. 0. Topic is all. If a good peer comes he can get fast connection smaller ones spread out. i. Even try setting the alternative rate limit to 1000 KB/sec (about 1 MB/sec speed) -- the next time you see it overloading, turn on this limited speed mode by using the switch at the bottom of qBT's window. What the hell is wrong with this program? Top. As a general rule, the upload limit should be around 80% of your actual upload speed, while the download limit can be set to the maximum available download speed. • 6 yr. 2. Topic is all. Ergo the upload was ~17% over my set maximum limit, for. Im using a very capable pc. Most of them have plenty of activity with sometimes more than 20 active peers. After 45 seconds to 60 seconds at high speed, the DL speed drops into the Kbps or even bps range and stays there forever. To make sure that the upload limit you set in uTorrent is respected, go to Options > Preferences > Bandwidth > Global Rate Limit Options and make sure that the "Apply rate limit to transport overhead" and "Apply rate limit to uTP connections" boxes are checked/enabled. In theory I should be able to achieve the same throughput. 5 MBit/s. I have a global upload setting at 5mbit, but i want to limit each torrent at 300kbit/s. Extra info(if any) qBittorrent version 3. Qbittorrent 4. You may also want to check out r/qBittorrent or the qBittorrent forums (for topics specific to that torrent client. it might help reduce overloads and crashes a little bit. Start the Mac. Look for the “Global Rate Limits” section. This will keep you competitive but the bigger above. I am using uTorrent for my torrents and when I open a new torrent with utorrent, I must manually. 2. If you want your computer to turn off after a certain time, you could go into task scheduler in windows, or write a short script. Open qbittorrent, ensure a rate limit is set. Set a maximum number of upload slots per torrent. I closed the qbit app and ran a new speed test and all the sudden I’m back at my usual 100/100 (technically 82/89). 4. I would suggest an 1200 MiB upload and download limit, so qbit doesn't eat all the bandwith. Measured on the web speedtest. My upload is still using my full bandwidth. If don't limit the upload speed, a torrent could suddenly start using 100% of your upload speed, leaving nothing, then your download speed will. My guess is that the default qBittorrent settings are too aggressive for your router/modem on wifi. 16 - Windows 10 When torrents are active system still goes to sleep. Open QBittorrent and select Tools. Your max upload should be set at about 2000KiB/s in qBittorrent. Go to the “Speed” tab in the options menu. Oddly an uncapped upload speed (around 100 KBps) results in around 300 KBps download. Regardless your internet speed doesn't directly correlate with torrent download speed. 2. . Then your main issue is from the torrent itself. number of upload slots. Anyone else have an issue with qBittorrent not closing after quitting then having to force quit. With qBittorrent the overhead is not included in the upload/download limits unless you check "Apply rate limit to transport overhead", which is unchecked by default. At the moment, im doing all this manually by choosing the torrent and then right click and change the "limit upload rate" to 300kbit/s. On BC i can reach 60-65mb/s maximum speed easily on the same torrents. It varies how long a torrent will download for before it happens, as well as when a torrent. I am noticing my download speed in qBittorrent never goes above 2. shows you a graph of the torrent’s upload and download speed. Are you are ok using UPnP, your router supports items, and you don’t want to manually forward a specific port, follow-up of following supreme qBittorrent settings for. 18 votes, 12 comments. For high speed upload, this should be set to a greater value than 100. Vegetto991. Then I set upload limit again to "infinity" and download speed goes up again. Result: low download rate around 5-200 kb/s, fast upload rate around 500-1000 kb/s Currently I have around 20 downloads in the list, each between. Issue Resolved. zhasphar. , when you want qBittorrent to be running at full speed. Limit the maximum upload rate to 10 or 15kbps and the maximum download speed to infinity. However when i tried to download a torrent the download speed was very low (about 600kb/s) even though it had many seeders. 3. 3. Ultimately I have qbittorrent set at 5000 KiB/s upload limit and 45000 KiB/s download limit. (so also leave a certain percentage in your upload speed limit to account for maxing out one or the other). In Speed, uncheck apply rate limit to transport overhead and try raising the upload limit to somewhere around 50% of your max upload speed. you should set connection speed limits to ~80% of your internet connection speed. Unfortunately, your torrent download speeds are at the mercy of the aggregate upload speed of the connected peers. adriantc Newbie Posts: 4 Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2016 11:12 am. Trackers are supposed to be organized in tracker tiers -- so only 1 tracker is used if there's 2+ tracker URLs to the same tracker, but qBitTorrent doesn't support that very well yet. This involves: setting the upload slots to 1 (because can't do 0), setting the global upload rate limit to 1 and likewise for the alternative upload rate limit, setting the maximum active uploads in Torrent Queuing to 0 and the seed torrents until their ratio reaches to 0. I have a fiber internet connection with 500Mbps upload. 0. . What you will need to do with your own box's limitations is limit the size of files you download to max cache size plus about 1gb per 8gb of cache. Configure downloads in qBittorrent to improve it. Is 5000 KB/sec sustained rate, or is that just peak possible. I capped my upload speed to 90%. But how to toggle that? Well, qbittorrent has an API. Since you don't become a seed until you've downloaded all the file pieces, that preset seeding limit means nothing. Since the last update or past few weeks I'm achieving only 50% (which is 6Mb/s) of upload limit. (Shame uTorrent didn't have that. but is there a limit to how many torrent i can seed at a time. Max download speed is usually much faster and not reached, so a max limit in qBitTorrent for download is normally not needed. ) On torrents that don't have 10x as many seeds as peers -- you need more upload slots in order to achieve both a higher upload and download speed. Open QBittorrent and select Tools. •. With the assistance of 'Speedtest' and 'Azureus U/L settings calculator' I was able to enter specific data into the designated boxes of BitTorrent - Options. How to stop qbittorrent continuing to seed after whatever ratio limit that you want has been reached:. 3. I usually do a 50-75 GB during the 16 hours my rig is on. I am recently started limit not with torrent limits, but upload slots, so the randomness is mitigated. The last download took a day and half at around 50 kb/s download speed and about 12kb/s upload speed. Running a standard speed test on that wifi would be putting a 100% load on it just to find out how fast it is -- both wasteful and annoying others using the same wifi. 50-60 the same torrents for upload). Connections. Go to qBittorrent settings > Connection. Just incase you didn't know and are confusing the two. 5MB/s, sometimes 2. --- I have a 10 MiB limit on upload with 10 upload slots on a private tracker. A peer-to-peer network is all about sharing. ex: 25/4 mbps you should see 2. It's probably due to the hidden global limit of 8-9 upload slots by qBitTorrent, but even that alone wouldn't explain the <2 MiB/sec total upload speed. Then select Speed in the left pane of Options within qBittorrent. When you set a low limit on upload in your torrent client that means your torrent downloads will be affected negatively. So here's what I'm running with at the moment: connection: use upnp/nat port forwarding from my router. Then I choose to limit my upload to 1 KiB/s and the download speed goes down to 560 KiB/s (all speeds are approximate). Best. My internets upload speed is about 9% the speed of my upload speed. • 16 days ago. (preferably 49152 or higher, some ISPs rate limit lower port numbers) Also: This port number should not be port 80 or 6881-6889 In your ISP router/modem, check if you have any sort of "flood protection", DDoS protection, etc. A ratio less than 1, for example, 0. You need toset it to the max of your internet. Lastly, on. 3. Remove the checkmark from "Do not count slow torrents in these limits". I ran the speed test 4 times and calculated the average download speed as 130. If there are a low number of seeders as compared to peers, throttling upload will kill download speed, because almost all bittorrent clients use "tit for tat" mode. I have a high speed fiber connection. You could probably upload more KBs and at a slightly faster KB/sec speed (closer to max) by lowering global and per torrent max values from 500/100 to about 300/30. Extra info(if any). Follow along the steps that I'll be showing you in t. Optimal max. If you are on public tracker limit your upload speed to 5% of upload speed and if on private then 30-40% is good for increasing Downloading speed. Adjust your download speed: Begin by increasing your QBittorrent’s download speed to 80%. Your ISP speed. This is the answer and solution to your question. File size was 8. Never did for me. Navigate to the Speed Settings: In the preferences window, find the “Speed” section. Windows specific questions, problems. qBittorrent version and Operating System Win 10 x64 Home, Qbitorrent 4. I have defined my global rate limits in qBittorrent to 675000 KiB/s upload (80%) and 858154 KiB/s download (95%). zhasphar. Super seeding should only be considered if the number of seeds is likely to be 5 or less. For example when I download with over 8Mbps engage the alternative speed limit and when the download speed drops below 8Mbps disengage it. 0. I followed every guide In Qbit forums and also learn on each setting in the client, Port is forwarded correctly, DHT,PEX are off. Testing your connection speed. 1. Enter the download and upload speeds limit you want under Alternative Rate Limits. Getting better seeders means better upload speed and better download speed. Connection Limits. Vuze's bloatware got to be too much for me so I tried switching to qBittorrent, but my download speed would never go higher than 1 Mbps. global max number of connections: 48. Max active upload = max seeding torrents. So what can be done to fix this?! Limit the download speed to lower than the max continuous write speed. You see the options windows. No matter how many upload slots are added, uTorrent's total UL speed would not exceed 90% of its limit. 1. It might be a stale peer cache coupled with a software firewall problem. Post by King Mustard » Wed Mar 18, 2020 11:00 am. All settings in qBittorrent are. 2. 4 it is a big problem. Port forward your router and maybe try changing the port in qbitorrent. Under Options, Speed, Rate Limits Settings. g. How many seeders and peers are there in the given torrent? 1. 0miB/s, and normally bounces around 1. Posted August 8, 2012. by Tree » Sat Mar 26, 2016 8:57 pm. Steps to reproduce. 100 global upload. 2. This may hamper your ratio post completion as you have limited your speed to get fast downloads. Head over to the Start menu and search for Windows Defender Firewall. I know this can be typed with ALT-236, but this doesn't work, neither does copy/pasting the infinity symbols. Super seeding should only be considered if the number of seeds is likely to be 5 or less. How to restrict per torrent upload speed. When you max out your upload or get really close to it, it's gonna lower your download bandwidth. Set the maximum download rate to 0. 13 posts • Page 1 of 1. 1. 5 with libtorrent RC_2_0, there you can specify RAM usage limit in qBittorrent Advanced Settings to be higher than 512 MiB, otherwise if you keep that default limit low and got fast network speed then it's still going to hurt qBittorrent responsiveness and making OS and CPU use too much resources. If you don't limit your upload speed, it can consume all your bandwidth, meaning your download speed is throttled. Either disable uTP and/or set TCP to higher priority (in advanced settings, something like prefer TCP) "Send upload piece suggestions" in advanced settings sadly must be disabled due to a bug with it that limits max upload speed to maybe 1-4 MB/sec. 1, and 4. 3. or you can just click on an upload speed line and make it whatever you want. I reside in Thailand and for optimal download/upload speed am using Singapore or Hong Kong server; PIA does not support/provide port-forwarding for these servers. It works but would have been better if there was a setting for it. Furthremore, in another torrent client, it limits the download speed to some limit when I set upload limit (and I can see the limit in the setting). 01kb, and the downloads became faster. I am wondering why is this the case. Try reducing max connections per torrent to only 10-30 (10 while only seeding, 30 while downloading). At the moment, im doing all this. But I have very big problem with the download speed. net in a browser, run the test (s), then provide a screen shot of the results in your post. 1. This applies speed limits to the peers in local network. I have 2 settings: upload/download speed is limited to 80% of maximum global maximum number of upload slots is 20 Look at HDD usage stats in task manager to set your number. It assumes the connection is dedicated to running torrents -- that means horrible speed test results WHILE running torrents. . I am wondering why is this the case. Configuring a proxy into qBittorrent. I set my download limit to 1 MB/s and tried 2 MB/s which also has no difference. Search “speed test” on Google and use the inbuilt speed tester or use a. So, maybe 25-40 global upload slots and limiting connections per torrent to 30-45 (+5 more than upload slot limit). Then cap your upload speed to 80% or less of your total upstream bandwidth. Set Upload and Download Limits: Locate the options for “Upload limit” and “Download limit”. I took some screenshots to prove that my settings were correct. This is the answer and solution to your question. 0. Also, limit your upload speed to 80% of your actual internet speed. How to do this. However, you can tweak the download rate to get a faster upload. Sometimes torrents added barely gain any speed at all, before slowing down to zero. Just beware that torrent working too fast with optimized settings can hinder. 5mbDOWN/900kbUP, I set upload slots 10-16, max peers 250-500, upload speed. That should fix it. d) "Inside" the Maximum number of connections per torrent is "Maximum number of upload slots per torrent". But I need to remember it every time I want to seed something new. Here is a typical picture: This is not a spike, the speed is persistent and real. I have default settings, VPN proxy and router port forwarding. For me, it is unlikely going to saturate my upload bandwidth in most cases. That means my max upload speed is around 10 MB/s. Dunno if upload affect the speed of downloading torrents. 3. This settings were set during the d/l. qBittorrent’s app came in with a download speed of 18 KB/s: whereas BitTorrent’s was slightly better at 78. 8. My 300 Mbps fiber optic connection works well in other clients. Use steamrip. Set this value to 1, which will limit your upload speed to 1 KiB/s for all torrents. 5Mbps. So your looking at getting a maximum download speed of about 9. FranciscoPombal changed the title Wishlist - upload speed limit Completely disable upload speed Feb 19, 2020 FranciscoPombal added Not an issue User error, problem unrelated to qBittorrent, feature already implemented, etc and removed Invalid Issues that fail to comply with the contributing guidelines and/or issue template requirements labels. 437. sledgehammer999 changed the title [Feature request] Limit upload speed on specific tracker Limit upload speed on specific tracker on May 18, 2020. That is about 10-15% of the 576GB theoretical maximum for that 16 hours This can't be helpedeven if i set my max upload to 5+MB/s my download wont exceed 1MB/s but soon as i set it to unlimited. there is a resion upload speed effects your download speed, its to give higher priority to poeple who will upload more. Select Schedule the use of alternative rate. My downloads on the other hand are quite fast. You could probably upload more KBs and at a slightly faster KB/sec speed (closer to max) by lowering global and per torrent max values from 500/100 to about 300/30. ago. 5 (overhead) MB/s. My Maximum number of connections per torrent is 100 right now and 500 for the global maximum number of connection. 50-60 torrents for upload). It's a good idea to put max download and upload speed limits on qBitTorrent when using it on a slow connection. Setting appropriate upload and download limits can help achieve better torrenting speeds. Man my DOWNLOAD speed isn't even 15 mbps :$. e. If they stick around long enough, they get something. . 4 posts • Page 1 of 1. I always set 80% for the measured upload for upload, so I don't choke other requests for other programs or devices. i've been watching it-- it seems that sometimes qbittorrent allows speeds greater than ~60kbps, using the same settings i described in the OP. Use different port on each startup voids the first option, and randomly assigns a different port every time qBittorrent starts up. In my case i want to get ~70-80 mb download and at least 20-40 mb upload. Connections per torrent: 300. Right click on the turnpike, and there's a setting to change the upload rate in kb. I've limited upload slots and set global upload limits. First of all you should limit the upload speed to ~80% of your real one. That's just how the protocol works. qBit Manage. 3. Hey guys first of all I warmly welcome to my Channel , I will show you in this video how to decrease upload speed in qBittorentDon't Forget to Like and Subsc. The settings are for downloading at >10x max upload speed extremely busy torrents with 100's of low-quality seeds and peers on each -- that's why the number of connections per torrent (at 323) is way beyond 50. upload_rate_limit and download_rate_limit sets the session-global limits of upload and download rate limits, in bytes per second. The settings are for downloading at >10x max upload speed extremely busy torrents with 100's of low-quality seeds and peers on each -- that's why the number of connections per torrent (at 323) is way beyond 50. Your connection is. ago. 3. 2. So a feature request asking for the ability to. Limit your upload speed to about 50% of your max and that should solve it. 2, the app I'm moving away from, and it doesn't seem to matter. Something like: 20 total 20 per torrent 2 upload 2 upload slots per torrent You can leave speeds uncapped. The bittorrent protocol was designed to work this way because uploading while downloading is prioritized as it's the most efficient way to. Internet needs both to be able to work properly. This involves: setting the upload slots to 1 (because can't do 0), setting the global upload rate limit to 1 and likewise for the alternative upload rate limit, setting the maximum active uploads in Torrent Queuing to 0 and the seed torrents until their ratio reaches to 0. Max upload speed (80%): 0 kB/s. According to my observations, qbittorent never respects upload limits. Obviously. Click on the speed tachometer in the status bar of the client to switch between the global and alternate speed limit manually. This is a program used to manage your qBittorrent instance such as: Tag torrents based on tracker URL and set seed goals/limit upload speed by tag (only tag torrents that have no tags) Update categories based on save directoryAlternative global download speed limit in KiB/s: alt_up_limit: integer: Alternative global upload speed limit in KiB/s: scheduler_enabled: bool: True if alternative limits should be applied according to schedule: schedule_from_hour: integer: Scheduler starting hour: schedule_from_min: integer: Scheduler starting minute: schedule_to_hour. 6MiB/s. 2. for a torrent with plenty of seeders like Ubuntu 15. (preferably 49152 or higher. I am using uTorrent for my torrents and when I open a new torrent with utorrent, I must manually. Please see the attached image. global_download_limit Get global download speed limit. LOL i actually get better download speed than vuze and deluge on qbittorrent but for some reason it keep jump up and down , UTP is onSeeding Limits/Ratios: Speed Throttling: Torrent tags/categories: Torrent search engine: With plugins: In browser: Third-party plugins: Port mapping & forwarding:. It might sound strange to some, but you should always cap your upload speed to reach the best download speeds. for 25/4 mbps (dl/up). Parameters infohash_list – Single or list() of infohashes; pass ‘all’ for all torrents. All settings in qBittorrent are default ones. Setting appropriate upload and download limits can help achieve better torrenting speeds. global max of upload slots: 24. 1. maxdownspeed: Set torrent download speed limit. 2: Rate Limit Settings Speed Global Rate Limits. 2 comments. E. Erratic download behavior [Solved] Details/info: qBittorrent v. Is there a way to do this automatically on all new added torrents? qbittorrent-nox 4. That download speed would likely overload a 3. 300k Bytes ps is 2. 1 ignoring schedule of alternative rate limits Qbitorrent ignores upload speed limit in one of the issues is mentioned that maybe qbt ignore low limits like 80kB, maybe try increasing (and restartting?)Slow upload speed, can't figure why. uTorrent vs qBittorrent Speed. Or they could be firewalled (or your end is!) and qBT is guaranteed to fail when attempting a direct connection to them. (x) Enable bandwidth management (uTP). On the other hand, if the user set "Total upload rate" to their connection capacity, they would be surprised that qBittorrent would consume much more upload traffic than anticipated (if they were downloading at full tilt and seeding up to the limit as well, in this example qBittorrent would be generating 0. I seed around 100 torrents, at least 50. Yes, that is true. I have default settings, except that I unchecked any rate limit, unchecked any torrent queueing and unchecked any connection limits. Hey guys first of all I warmly welcome to my Channel , I will show you in this video how to decrease upload speed in qBittorentDon't Forget to Like and Subsc. 0. Sure, sometimes I reach a total of 4MiB/s but that's nowhere near my. Then, go to the Speed tab and set the Upload and Download rate limits to infinity(∞). I don't enable any QOS in the router or in OS. Try calling your upload speed to about 80 percent of your max. Fully. mehti1367 on Apr 22, 2019edited by sledgehammer999. Edit: most I ever see through nord while downloading is 40mbps and that's pretty rare. then I must repat the first 2 steps again and then go to click on Set upload limit and click the proper desired amount which for me is 1 Kb/s. Extra info(if any): STEP 1: Whitelisting QBittorrent in Windows Firewall. I've limited upload slots and set global upload limits. Meanwhile the speed graph on qbittorrent looks like so. This is normal. preferably in a dynamic way,so that it is unlimited until something else needs the bandwidth. 3. Anyone know how to do this? This is my current settings kept, I haven't changed anything here as far as I can remember. Go to qBittorrent r/qBittorrent. qBittorrent version and Operating System Win 10 x64 Home, Qbitorrent 4. That's also why I recommended 10 total active (and seeding) torrents as optimal for that upload limit. Apply rate limit to peers on LAN. Make some tests. Downloading something from the web means you're transferring data from the other location to your own device, whether it be your phone, computer, tablet, smartwatch, etc. Post by Julius » Sun Oct 12, 2014 3:24 pm. 3. 2. Either disable uTP and/or set TCP to higher priority (in advanced settings, something like prefer TCP) "Send upload piece suggestions" in advanced settings sadly must be disabled due to a bug with it that limits max upload speed to maybe 1-4 MB/sec. For me, it seems that certain torrents give me like 1-2 mbps of upload speed. 2. I have version 3. Here are is how I have set them up. If you're going to set a upload limit then set it to something reasonable (say 1 Mbps or higher) or don't set a limit at all. Listening port: 38557 (forwarded) Global max connections: 1000. Just left click on the speedometer icon once and that should fix your issue. 0. 4, Windows 7 After I set upload speed limit, I find the download speed drops to ~50 KiB/s (never exceeds 100 KiB/s). Speed limits look straight forward in the settings, but I'm having trouble implementing it. Go to qBittorrent r/qBittorrent. This is sound advice, but you need to understand why. A larger cache won't help. 6 for win 7 x64 how to update ? Ty in advance. Try disabling "Apply rate limit to uTP protocol" and "Apply limit to transport overhead" and "Apply rate limit to. MSR8 • 9 mo. Nemo Administrator Posts: 1729. 3, but in 4. My upload speed can go as high as 250 Mbit/s. Since you will always be uploading at your maximum speed, torrent clients need to be configured according to maximum upload. 0. Varying upload speeds is also smart, starting high and then gradually slowing down to mid-download. in the Advanced where it say Transfer list refresh interval set to 1500 to 1400 this will stop your speed down. It would be nice if we had more info in statistics. 5 with libtorrent RC_2_0, there you can specify RAM usage limit in qBittorrent Advanced Settings to be higher than 512 MiB, otherwise if you keep that default limit low and got fast network speed then it's still going to hurt qBittorrent responsiveness and making OS and CPU use too much resources. Speed limits look straight forward in the settings, but I'm having trouble implementing it. Inspection that box “Use UPnP / NAT-PMP port forwarding from my router. Alternatively, you could set it to something like 1 Mbps (125 kB/s or 122 KiB/s) if you want to start with a minimum. 16 and my network speed is 1gbps. 3. Hello everyone, I'm new to downloading torrents and would like to seek help understanding how exactly Connections Limits work in detail (if possible)? Global maximum # of connections: sets the maximum number of peers to connect to for all torrents Maximum # of connections per torrent: sets the maximum number of peers to connect to for each. Steps to reproduce: Start Qbittorrent; Set an Upload speed limit (like 40K/s) Start seeding??? Watch Qbittorrent upload at 100 or 200K per second, while the setting is 40K/s REPRODUCTIBLE: ALWAYS. :) 😂my upload speed is 1. 4. Connection configs:I don't limit simultaneous active download or upload, because some half-dead torrent can be revived if one peer with just the right blocks joins back. Select a Healthy Torrent File. Download speeds are fast and limited only by my contract speed but upload is usually around 100 to 200kbps. So, technically you are limiting your upload capacity for no reason. If on the same network, check that the "rate_limit_local_peers" is set to true. Search; function "limit upload speed" not working. 1 ignoring schedule of alternative rate limits Qbitorrent ignores upload speed limit in one of the issues is mentioned that maybe qbt ignore low limits like 80kB, maybe try increasing (and restartting?) Slow upload speed, can't figure why.